An Answer to “Islamophobia”
Recently a gathering of Islamic leaders in Dakar, Senegal, has brought together leaders from many countries to discuss what they described as "Islamophobia." Included in this gathering were respectable leaders from Muslim countries, a handful of despotic maniacs, and a complete desire to ignore basic human freedoms.
Is it possible that there can be no understanding between the east and the west? I, personally, do not think so, but we in the west are not the only people that have to make changes to make that possible. According to our friends in the AP:
Concerned about what they see as a rise in the defamation of Islam, leaders of the world's Muslim nations are considering taking legal action against those that slight their religion or its sacred symbols. It was a key issue during a two-day summit that ended Friday in this western Africa capital.
Attempting to formulate a world-wide plan to control the freedom of expression in other sovereign states, they wish to come up with actions of legal nature to force others on our happy little planet to follow their rules and regulations. As one member of this Organization of Islam Conference stated:
"I don't think freedom of expression should mean freedom from blasphemy," said Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade, the chairman of the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference. "There can be no freedom without limits."
Another member goes on to say: "'Muslims are being targeted by a campaign of defamation, denigration, stereotyping, intolerance and discrimination,' charged Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the secretary general of the group, 'Islamophobia cannot be dealt with only through cultural activities but (through) a robust political engagement.'"
Further:
Hemayet Uddin, the lead author of the OIC report and head of cultural affairs for the group said legal action is needed because "this Islamophobia that we see in the world has gone far beyond a phobia. It is now at the level of hatred, of xenophobia, and we need to act."
Well, allow me to retort.
Here in the middle of the US I live next to a great number of Islamic peoples. I have learned to cook many of the dishes in the traditional fashions, and while I have not learned the language, I am not offended by the large number of stores and restaurants that sport Arabic menus and signs in the slightest. I frequent them because I enjoy that cuisine and culture as I do many others. I love to cook, and I love to learn. To the greatest extent of my understanding, these people living here are peaceful, productive tax-paying legal citizens that have no desire to impose their views on me anymore than I wish to convert them to Catholicism and celebrate St. Patrick's Day with me. That is fair and equitable.
That is not what most of these OIC people are about. Let us ponder the use of the term "Islamophobia" for a minute and see why such a thing should even exist. For me, the entire thing is summed up in a nutshell by the above comments by Senegal's President Abdoulaye Wade, when he says that freedom of expression should have limits. Limits based on exactly what, I ask? In his case he names blasphemy. It is a blasphemy against a religion that I do not follow. His folks in Senegal do not seem to have any trouble at all in denigrating western values and ideals. They have no difficulty, in fact, with killing Christians.
That is what leads me to an important point. The Facist Islamist is a person that thinks in universal terms. It is not enough that people bend their wills to THEIR interpretation of the Koran in their own countries, it bothers them intensely that there are other people not bound by their laws, and most importantly, by their religion. That is why in this OIC that you do not hear anything of the rights of the Jews in Israel, instead you hear Mahmoud "Batshit Nuts" Ahmadinejad declaring the holocaust a myth and he calls for the elimination of that tiny little country. You hear about the cruelties of the West by the elimination of Saddam Hussein and his band of thugs, and you hear about the heroic martyrs of Islam when they blow up innocent men, women and children. You will hear nothing of the total inability of Hamas and the PLO to even get along, but you will hear about the cruelties of the Israeli government when they lash back at those that kill indiscriminately. The Islamic world had no problems when Turkey invaded northern Iraq to kill Kurdish insurgents, but if Israel does the same thing in Lebanon they are roundly condemned by the Islamic world as monsters. A cartoonist pens down a cartoon of Mohammed that was, considerably perhaps, in bad taste, but the reaction of the radical Islamic was way beyond the bounds. Now they wish to organize in legal ways to abridge the laws of countries within which they have right to intervene. They remind me of children crying about being called names.
Make no mistake. These fascists have no interest in abridging their desires to control other peoples to mere political maneuvering. The same people that applaud the killing of innocents in the name of the "religion of peace" will have no problem in extending their desire to control right over into military action. The "religion of peace" that has no problem with the slaughter of Christians in Dakar will have no trouble in the slaughter of my own wife, children, parents, and everything that I hold dear.
This is not Islamophobia. This is the simple fear of maniacs. This is the fear of those that hold no laws but those that they believe in holding. I do not fear Islam, and I do not fear the vast majority of Moslems as citizens of my own neighborhood. I fear that the West will not fight this handful of blood-thirsty barbarians who happen to have gained power through the blood of their peoples and those of their neighbors.
I would ask those that object to what I am saying a simple question: Do you think that exploding the Trade Towers in New York City exactly "endeared" Moslems to the rest of us? Do you think that we are somehow going to relish the thought of sending simpletons, women, and children into public places with explosives tied to their body as being a sample of real civilization and justice? Do you think the blood of innocents makes you worthy of being admired? Do you believe that hating Jews and Christians is acceptable because they are different than you are? Lastly, do you think the West has an infinite amount of patience in dealing with thug dictators and eastern potentates when they threaten our own families and ways of life? If that is the case, then you understand the West in no way whatsoever.
If you wish to dialogue with the West, you are going to have to understand a simple thing for us, but incomprehensible to you: namely, that we consider the rights of people to religious freedoms as a primary human right. We also consider the right of speaking our minds as a primary human right. We consider the right of the individual to exist and function with as few governmental regulations as is possible as fundamental. We also consider our sovereignty beyond whatever laws and regulations that you may impose on your hapless peoples with repression, cruelty and their own blood.
Islamophobia implies that we mean to fear Islam simply because it is Islam. That is a misuse of a language that you do not speak very well. We get along fine with the Moslem peoples when they do not mean to tell the rest of us what to think, and what to write, what our laws are, and how to believe. The rest of you can go to hell.

Is He Kidding?
Excellent retort, James. I wish Bush and any of the presidential candidates would draw the same (reasonable) line.
"Hemayet Uddin, the lead author of the OIC report and head of cultural affairs for the group said legal action is needed because 'this Islamophobia that we see in the world has gone far beyond a phobia. It is now at the level of hatred, of xenophobia, and we need to act.'"
Uh, hello? That's an inverted projection. Turn it back around: The Judeo-Christophobia that we see in the Muslim world has gone far beyond a phobia. It reached a level of hatred and xenophiobia a long time ago, and the act of 9/11 was carried out (among diverse and sundry other terrorist acts around the world), and it is we who needed to act.
"Another member goes on to say: 'Muslims are being targeted by a campaign of defamation, denigration, stereotyping, intolerance and discrimination,' charged Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the secretary general of the group.
Kind of like Judeo-Christians in Muslim countries?
"'Islamophobia cannot be dealt with only through cultural activities but (through) a robust political engagement.'"
Just what exactly does he mean by "robust, political engagement?"
And if he really does mean what I presume he intends it to mean (i.e. non-violent engagement), then he should tell the terrorists.
He could only be kidding himself
I suspect that "robust political engagement" will mean things the return of oil embargos, anti-Israeli actions, and random acts of terrorism that cannot be traced to a specific political entity.
There could be other things in their tiny minds, but you can bet that none of them are any good for the citizens here.
Nihil est ad omnia parte beatum.
just catching up
First of all, I like the new comment screen. This is a nice set up, Sal!
I could learn a thing or two from you. One thing I would mention, though, is
that I have to hit enter if I don't want the comments to keep going and going
off screen. It needs a Wrap setting.
Anyway, I haven't been over here in a few days to see if anything was going on.
My thinking on "robust political engagement" would mean that they were willing
to put their arms to work for them.
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
Islamophobia
Excellent retort, James. I wish Bush or any of the presidential candidates wouild draw the line as clearly.
"'Islamophobia cannot be dealt with only through cultural activities but (through) a robust political engagement.'"
Someone should tell him that rioting, vandalizing hordes and murderous terrorism in reaction to political deadlocks and cartoons are not included in "robust political engagement," but I suspect that's just a euphemism for precisely those kinds of actions.
moderate islam
moderate islam (if there is such a creature) is not exactly stepping up to the plate to claim what's left of their "peaceful" religion.
islam is a case of the tail (radicals) wagging the dog (moderates).
truth be known, phelonius - the radicals are the ones following the koran and hadith to a tee and are the most devout of muslims.
Which group of radicals?
There are radical Sunnis and there are radical Shia moslems. They do not agree on everything by a shot. But I digress.
If nation states and dictators want to bring it on, then let them. We can pancake any one of those camel-ridden sand-dunes without breathing hard. The direction this conversation has taken is more about the over-all Islamic Threat to the west, and the fact that many people of that religion live just down the block from most of us.
The real question is what do we do about it? I suspect that the moderate elements in Islam are not as vocal and they are afraid of being singled out by the radical elements. Do we now need to place all Islamic followers in the US into concentration camps because we cannot tell the difference? Or, as JimDesu hinted, we should just kill them all because they are vermin, like poisonous spiders?
If we do these things, then we have become what the radical Moslem is, and no better. I do not claim to have an answer at all, but something tells me that a true and proper Christian response is not one that resorts first to violence against innocents.
Nihil est ad omnia parte beatum.
The biggest reason that
The biggest reason that moderates do not come forward is that radical Islam can be deadly to those who are not in compliance with their views.
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
Islam
So, the best way I can read this is that we are putting the entirety of Islam on trial?
The first thing that you have to realize is that they do not care anything about your bible, how you read it, or what the translators say about how they should read it.
Your personal bible is written in English and us the subject of several translations. We are not talking about your personal friend Jesus. You can argue about Mohammed or you can argue against Mohammed. I do not care. You are not going to find the topic of Mohammed in your King James Bible no matter how hard you look.
It is good if you can read the Koran in English and decide if they have the true revelation or not. Try reading it in the Arabic and tell me if they have no rights to claim religious truth. I never made that claim.
What I claimed is this: It is not the religious Moslem that gives us grief in the west. It is the religious radical that gives grief in the west. You are not going to convince any sort of Islamic believer by arguing the King James version of the Christian Bible. It does not make them evil, it makes them different. The radical Islamics are a a different type altogether. They read the Koran the same way that Jim Jones read the King James bible. They are fucking crazy. They do not care if their interpretation is different than a huge number of the Islamic community reads it. For them, that is beside the point, and our interpretation of the KJ Bible could not mean less to them if it were a bug on the window.
I agree
The vast majority of Islamic believers are not our enemies. The very vocal radical militant Muslim WANTS the West to believe that ALL of Islam is like they are. It is their justification for what they do.
In a sense they have highjacked the religion for their own purposes and those who try to go against them are severly punished. The problem is that they are VERY vocal. It is very difficult, also, within Islam, to go against these angry, radical, noisy, violent bad examples.
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
I'm not so sure 'vast' is
I'm not so sure 'vast majority' is the right term. Perhaps 'some' is more accurate.
With anywhere from 13 - 89% of muslims in support of suicide attacks against civilians to defend Islam I'd certainly classify people of that mentality as my enemy.
The whole report is an interesting read.
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253
your opinion is what it is
This shows me that a 'majority' (and a pretty good one at that) do not think that violence against civilian targets in order to defend Islam is justified.
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
spiders
A majority of brown recluse spiders don't think it's a good idea to bite me, either. It's the size of the minority that keeps me slaying them.
Painting with broad strokes
Now, Jimmie me boy, you and I both know that people that follow a religion are not spiders. They are not following a basic instinct to wipe out the human race by being horrible little monsters with a venemous bite. What you are literally suggesting is that there is a need for me or others to go down to the local mosque and murder innocents....
That is exactly the mentality that I am decrying here. We do not need to become the Taliban or AlQuaida in order to defeat them. There is no need to become ruthless amoral murderers as an end to killing those individuals that actually DO need a good Hellfire Missle in their tail-pipe.
Nihil est ad omnia parte beatum.
Perhaps, at the same time
Perhaps, at the same time this moral relativism that suggests that Islam is simply misunderstood, that it is as good as any religion and that it is infact a religion of peace is simply pie-eyed pollyannaism. It is an oppressive anathema the makes victims of all within it's societies, especially the weak, the old, the young, women and the infirm. The world world would be better off with out this bastardized tangential faith of the god of Abraham.
Does that then suggesst that there aren't good Muslim people? Not at all. Take a look at any murderous fanatical movement throughout history and you will find a lot of 'good people', good people that stood around and watched as thier societies perfomed the most barbaric of atrocities, but 'good people' none the less.
I agree
Well I have to agree that those that maintain the radical ideals of "suicide bomber" are the enemies of the west, and this just goes on to show that radical muslims ARE IN FACT a threat to the west and ARE IN FACT to be feared. If that is a phobia, then you could describe my fear of violent car accidents as a phobia. What they want to call a phobia I call a healthy response to fascists. In other words, if they want us to quit calling them fanatics, then they should stop acting like fanatics.
You cannot walz into my house and threaten me and then think I over-reacted when I take your threat seriously.
Nihil est ad omnia parte beatum.
"Well I have to agree
RADICAL muslims are the threat!
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
Go on and sue me...
I think there may be an advantage to letting them take someone to open court. Firstly there is no right to no be offended so they begin with no viable basis to begin with. But it would provide an opportunity to put Islam itself on trial.
With the Bible I have read it enough over the decades that my personal Bible looks more like a reference book than anything else. I have jotted little notes in about ever piece of free space there is except Numbers. Not a whole lot in there, it is after all simply a census of the people that came out of Egypt. Wonder if any other religion on Earth has such a book ? Anyway, I am not one of those that has put it to memory but I know it well enough that if someone says something is in the Bible I can tell whether it is true or not. Most often it is not. I have found that a great many religious people have not actually read it for themselves but generally are satisfied to let somone else explain it to them. Same thing with the Koran I imagine. I doubt the majority of muslims can even read to begin with.
Somewhere in the past I bought a Koran. I know I have read it at least three times. There really isn't all that much substanative content in it. Unlike the Bible it isn't linear thinking and filled with empty meaningless passages such as "Allah is compassionate" though I don't really recall any examples of this. Having the benefit of first having read the Bible many times it becomes quickly apparent that Allah is not the god of Moses, Issac, Jacob or Jesus though Mohammed claimed it so. Mohammed needed a historical foundation for the religion he was inventing for his own glorification so he borrowed from the Hebrews.
Mohammed makes broad statements that simply are not true and could not have come from a divine revealtion which has awareness of future events. The best example I can think of is his condemantion of Christians not being monotheists because they worship Mary. Well I'm a Christian and don't worship Mary. In fact most the Christians I know don't either. Apparently Allah wasn't letting Mohammed's angel in on future events.
One thing that both the Bible and the Koran agree on is that the Creator gave the Holy Land to the Jews. Never hear that from the mullahs.
So there is a great opportunity to prove that the the very thing that Mohammed claims as the premise of his divne revealation does not in fact support his claims. He says that Isa was a phrophet of God. That is Jesus. Yet they do not follow their own prophet's declaration to turn the other cheek, love your enemies. What do muslim do with an adultress ? In Iran they stone her. What did Jesus do with an adultress? He condemned her accusers in their heart by telling them that the first among them without sin to throw the first stone. Somewhere in the 600 years between Jesus and Mohammed God must have developed dual personalities.
Muslims claim that Jesus foretold of Mohammed's coming. Only two things come to my mind on this. He foretold that the Holy Spirit would come to them. The other is that a false prophet would arise leading many astray. John tells us this false prophet is defeated and cast back into damnation when Christ returns. This is Mohammed and sets up a pretty good system where his words cannot be rigorously examined when in the Bible God welcomes the folly of trying to find fault in his word.
So let's put Islam on trial. This is the same menatlity C.A.I.R tries until they are forced to open their books for examination and debate. Then they drop the case.
In a nutshell
So, what you are saying is that all of Islam is blamed for the actions of a some 'nut jobs'.
http://paperclippings.blogspot.com
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